That sounds so painful 
I’m glad that they’re considering PICC line insertion, it doesn’t make sense to be using veins for this longer term treatment. A friend is a radiographer at the Royal Marsden and was surprised when I told her that the local phlebotomy team cannot take bloods from a PICC so suggested I ask the BCN can they do it - which I did - in order to protect my veins. It’s raised other issues but I’m glad I did, after all that’s one of the benefits of having a line. I hope you can get it sorted now @ivegotthis01 and feel better soon
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@ivy-cat and @hc1973 I hope that you both have a better few days and feel well soon, what difficult times you’re having, take care x
Thanks @altoan xx annoyingly just woken up with my daughters cold this morning urgh! Temperature s ok just runny nose and sore throat. I’m supposed to go to a big party on Saturday in Stratford upon Avon and have a hotel booked it’s been planned for months. I’ve been so determined to go and I have a new dress too so have to go 
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@ivegotthis01 thanks for that info! I’m also on 2 weekly ECs (glad that’s the 4th done too) and my wrist and forearm had painful phlebitis after the second then that’s my left arm got a milder case of it too. I’ve had it about 6 weeks and had mentioned it/shown it to a few folk before I got my ultrasound scan on Friday at chemo when it flared up more too. So glad I’ve got the blood thinners now as it’s starting to ease off a bit pain wise but feel like EC really wrecked my veins in my right arm, which my oncologist also confirmed is an issue with it. She did say docetaxel isn’t as harsh on the veins but I’m dreading it in case it causes more irritation as I’m not allowed to use right arm the now and I can see and feel my red vein in my left now too🙈 they never mentioned a PICC line for me but maybe the blood thinners will help enough…. Fingers crossed!!
@ivegotthis01 sounds awful, your veins must be struggling so much 
I had cording following my op, they advised me to get husband to keep massaging it and I did too and eventually they snapped and relief was instant, ( hope this gives you some hope of relieving it) hope you start to feel better soon xx
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It’s so strange how it differs so much from hospital to hospital on PICC’s. My hospital said they would only ever administer the first EC via peripheral vein (and only if they couldn’t get a PICC or Port inserted in time) but they wouldn’t do any more than 1 or it would destroy veins each time. The ideal was to never deliver any chemo via a vein and they were obsessed about avoiding it. Yet other hospitals seem to just do the entire thing via peripheral veins.
Likewise, all bloods are done via my PICC and someone here mentioned that not being allowed.
Had my bloods rerun yesterday and my liver is in turmoil from the Docetaxel. My readings are 5 times the maximum. It made me do some reading and Docetaxel really does assault the liver beyond belief so it’s normal and should recover for next week but the antibiotics probably haven’t helped my poor liver.
Neutrophils now at 40 along with WBC at 42 but low lymphocytes so they’re just a bloody mess.
Day 9 of diarrhoea but finished antibiotics last night so am hoping things improve sometime soon.
Walked into my normal hospital for my bloods and burst into tears as soon as I saw my usual team. My A&E experience has left me so on guard and scared about trusting anyone and I just want the whole chemo thing to be over and for me to feel safe again.
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@swk1981 It’s crazy how high the liver levels can get with docetaxel. Mine were 3x the max when I had my last bloods done last week and that’s with everything else being normal. Hopefully they’ll recover quickly once we’re done with all this nonsense.
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Completely understand where you are coming from @swk1981 its so hard to bounce back from a place where you felt so vulnerable, brighter days are surely ahead 
In regards to bloods and pic lines, whilst in a&e the weekend they would not take any bloods from my pic, I’ve got so many bruises as my veins kept collapsing , and once they eventually got a new line in, took bloods and administered antibiotics it could then not be used to take more bloods they needed as one of my tests had clotted so had to find another vein , when the oncology nurse came to see me she used the pic line to take bloods and to be honest I’m glad the nurses on a&e didnt use it as the standard of care and hygiene is on a totally different level from oncology nurse to a&e nurse x
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@swk1981 Day 9 of diarrhoea 
- I’m on day 6 and totally had enough. I’m not eating much at all as it triggers awful stomach cramps and then the diarrhoea. Really hoping I turn a corner soon as I’m just so exhausted.
The Picc line thing is weird. I asked for one as my veins are so small and hard to find but I’m definitely the odd one out on the chemo ward - not sure I’ve seen anyone else with one so far. @elle16 i can’t believe the hospital didn’t use it take bloods when you were in A&E. Why risk another infection by doing it via a needle? This has really been an eye opener to me regarding different approaches to care in the NHS.
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Oh @ivy-cat poor you, I hope you turn a corner soon. Sending hugs Helen x
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Totally with you on infection control standards at A&E. The A&E nurse didn’t even wipe the tails on my PICC and I think I mentioned her tapping the syringe on the sharps bin, dropping it on the bed and then reattaching it to my PICC.
They punctured me too and endlessly and inserted a cannula for bloods which blew my mind. My oncology lead replaced all the tails yesterday and flushed it within an inch of its life and put all new dressings on. It felt so nice to be cleansed of the horrible hospital once and for all!
The same nurse who said “Ooh, let me see your scar!” and then lifted my top and proceeded to ogle at my scar making comments about how neat it is. I wanted to curl in a ball I felt so self conscious.
It seems that drinking is everything with Docetaxel since our livers need all the help they can get to metabolise the drug.
It would have really helped if someone could have explained how much it affects mucosa (and therefore our entire digestive tract) and our livers at the beginning so that we had an understanding of WHY the side effects are what they are and what the tipping points are that can leave us in danger.
There seems to be a real reluctance to let us in and for us to be knowledgeable.
When I was leaving hospital after the neutropenia, I asked the nurse to ask the oncologist to see me to explain how my neutrophils had climbed 10 points in 24 hours. She came back and said “The oncologist says it’s the GCSF injections we’ve given you”. I replied “You’ve not given me any so can the oncologist please come here to see me?” A young trainee oncologist came in, very stroppy, and insisted it was the GCSF and I pointed out that she was in the room when her consultant had said that they categorically would not give them to me because they would over-inflate levels. She was visibly annoyed with me for wanting to know why they were so high and couldn’t provide a satisfactory answer for me. It’s like they’d much rather we were just thick and didn’t answer any questions and just went along for the ride.
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@hc1973 keeping everything crossed for you, really hope you make the party, that dress needs to be worn 
xx
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Please ask before your next chemo, I as going to ask at my oncologist appointment on friday as can only use left arm for chemo - thankfully yesterday has pushed this forward.
Hope things settle with you soon xx
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Thanks, I’ve been told to put ibuprofen gel on & gentle stretches, which is easing abit, but its sore to even touch very gently - my veins just do not like EC & as moving onto Paclitaxel which is a 3hrs insertion, a picc will be so much better all round 
xx
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@ivegotthis01 Just to say I had horrible cording after EC into vein. Couldn’t straighten or twist my arm, and pain when anything brushed against it. After a few weeks of hoping it’d get better by itself, I got some advice from the nurse. Then I used heat pack on it each evening, gentle stretching and throwing and catching a ball (with my kids). It made a massive difference. I am now 8 weeks and able to use arm normally now, just still a bit sore when straighten fully. So I’m just trying to say, it does go away!!! And don’t be afraid to use it as that actually helps.
I’ve had one docetaxel into veins and so far nothing other than bruising for 2 weeks around the site. 2nd docetaxel this Friday so will see what happens this time. It really is a lottery.
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Thanks 
hope yours settles soon too. I’ve got the oncologist early next week before chemo but I asked last time I seen them and they told me no and it’s a last resort due to the extra infection risk… dunno if it’s also to do with my neutrophils always being so low and my infection risk being higher with that too. Who knows 
I’m defo going to bring it up again though just to see what they say
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@gromit12 - hope your chemo goes well tomorrow
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@hc1973 - hope you are starting to feel better and are on course for attending that party on Saturday!
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